Episode 37: Going from Peer to Boss, What a Ride!
Congratulations! You have just been promoted and you will now be leading the people that were just your friends and peers! Or, maybe you are a 1st time manager in a new culture, company or department. This type of transition is one of the most challenging you will face in your career. Please join Jeff Smith and Maged Khalef as we discuss our experiences both as leaders that have gone through this transition and as coaches that support clients through this challenge. We will offer tips, tools, case studies and resources to help you grow your leadership.
Maged is a learning consultant based in Abu Dhabi, in the United Arab Emirates who is passionate about leadership development and coaching. Maged’s experience and diverse cultural background have contributed significantly to his current role as a facilitator and a coach. He leads Curiosity Coaching & Consulting, a learning provider focusing on designing learning journeys for intact teams in Healthcare and Education. His coaching helps middle leaders take their performance closer to their potential. He frequently works with promoted managers who are aspiring to lead more effectively – in many instances leading their former peers. Maged holds an MBA from The University of Strathclyde in the United Kingdom. He is an Associate Certified Coach by the International Coach Federation (ICF).
Jeff: Welcome. Jeff Smith here today. I’ve got Lee here in the studio, and in just a moment, we are going to be having Maged Khalaf join us. Let me do the intro and then he will be getting on with us in just a second. We are going to be talking about the topic of when you move from that being a peer into being the new boss. You get promoted, all those challenges.
We are going to be bringing suggestions, ideas and give you some of our experiences from working with folks around the world. Let me let me talk to you about Maged first. Maged is a learning consultant. He is based in Abu Dhabi in the UAE. He is passionate about leadership developing coaching. He is a very diverse person himself. I want to talk a little bit about his background but he is got a very diverse culture background and that has helped him be a better facilitator or coach. He leads a company called Curiosity Coaching and Consulting. It is a leading provider focusing on designing learning journey, inspiring tech teams and healthcare and education.
He helps coach, middle managers, and helps them take their performance a lot closer to their full potential. He has got his MBA from the University of Strathclyde in the United Kingdom. He is an associate certified coach by the International Coach Federation. He is married and has a little daughter. We are looking forward to having Maged here with us today. Lee, let us talk about this for just a second and then Maged will let us know when he is joining us.
What we are talking about is all of a sudden you are doing your job one day and I come over and tap you on the shoulder and say, 'Lee, you are now the guy.' You have gone from being a peer of all those people you have been working with for the last two or three years and now you are the guy. You are going to be the manager.
Lee: I will tell you that is a tough one because a lot of managers, when they are in that situation, struggle with that. You and I have both seen that. There is a line of demarcation, a professional line between rapport and reporting. Not to get too technical with that but there is a time when you are not friends, you have a reporting relationship. The results in fall out that comes in the office from that were people look at you and say, 'Oh, yes. You are not really the boss, are you?' It is almost like a teenager. You have teenagers?
Jeff: Yes, I do.
Lee: They are going to test your boundaries. I had a person that actually this happened to. A great guy, was somewhat of a mentor to me, and we were such good friends that he would look at me sometimes and say, 'Okay, listen up. I am on your case.' That was his way to say I am official now and because otherwise it would have just been so cordial because we just like each other so much and we were just so close. There is something too that you can be friends with people but at sometimes you are just going to have to be the boss.
Jeff: I think that was one of the first big steps that you really have to do on this. We are going through some resources. One of the ones that both Maged and I enjoyed was a book called from Bud to Boss. It is really good. The ability to break down some of the coming sort of challenges and frustrations that happen. As you think about some of the folks you coached, Lee, what is a couple piece of advice that you have given first time managers.
Lee: First thing I would do is be very clear in your own role and be very comfortable in your own skin. A lot of times when people, they say yes I am the boss, well again like to my earlier point, boss is watching you. They are watching you for your ethics, your integrity, year managerial acumen. They are looking for how you are going to act. They are finding their water level with you because remember you are coming in new.
They are trying to find where are your boundaries, what are you like, what do you dislike, how do I manage up to you. Do you like to use text messages, do you like Facetime more? If so, when? All those things you are going to find your water level with. The thing is at the very beginning, make your preferences known to your team. Another thing that new managers who have gone from bud to boss, to use his words, experience is a little demon shows up on their shoulder and says, 'You really cannot do this, right?'
Now, some people they are not best on issue and very confident. Other people is like I have been putting this period of this position of greater responsibility, am I up to the challenge and you hear those voices. Not that you people in the radio audience is hearing voices you understand. If you are, you know who you are. But there is something to that. There is a confidence. Confidence is contagious, confidence builds team and if you are leading your team in a manner where they are not sensing that confidence, I think it makes it more difficult to go from bud to boss.
Jeff: Sidenote, we are going to add Maged at our first break.
In the meantime, a couple of things that I would say Lee has outlined the brilliant. Do not be afraid to celebrate too. This is a really great accomplishment and we should be able to celebrate that you were able to get. Then I think it is a matter of what is it that your learning plan is going to be. You only get a short amount of time to really learn and if you do not take that time to get good at role at learning how to do relationships and what are the expectations of the job and you should think it is just going to be an extension of what you have already done, I think you are making a great mistake.
I see too many people that think that oh I got promoted, I kind of already know how to do this job and they do not take time to really go and learn relationships across the business. Understand boss's expectations and do a list of things. Next thing you know, they are kind of rock themselves up on the shore and their own problems.
Lee: They impaled themselves on somebody else's politics or attitude and you made an excellent point it. We on-board people all over the country. In your case, all over the world. There is wisdom in that and there is wisdom in a multitude of counselors here. Okay, you have proved that you are new for this role and you may think you have it going. You may not have it going on as much as you think you do. To your point, what are the things that we do when we on-board somebody?
Do you have all the tools to do your job? Remember, your job as a manager is different from your job as a contributor. Secondarily, who do you need to manage up to? Remember you have a boss and how you translate into strategic intent from that next level down to your team. Are you doing any adequate job that do you even understand what it is. How do you set the tone and the vision for your team?
Lee: What we are going to do is we are going to take our break now. When we come back, hopefully we will have Maged on the other side. Lee, thanks for being here and we will talk to you in two minutes.
Jeff: Welcome back. So glad you could be with us today. We had also a bit of rocky start. Just trying to bring Maged in but that is the beauty of the live radio, right?
Maged, I did an introduction of you. What I want to say as you are now on is Maged is just a wonderful human being. Knows so much, travel the world. Done just amazing things. He has a real passion for mentoring and growing talent. An excellent speaker, facilitator, coach and really worldly experience having lived in the Middle East, having a family, a parent from the Middle East, a parent from Brazil . Just a little bit of everything. Maged is also married and has a child and watch out, he also knows martial arts. Do not think you can take, Maged. He can stand up for himself. Maged, how are my friend?
Maged: I am very good and I am happy to be here.
Jeff: This is the topic. We are really talking a place where you have lived. You went from being a peer to being a boss. You coach a lot of people in that space. Lee and I talked for a few minutes but let us give you the floor for just a minute. What would you say about people who are making that adjustment and what is sort of the biggest things that you see go right and what are some things that go wrong at the outset and then we will start to work towards expectations things. But just sort of an overview on what you see when people get promoted?
Maged: Very quickly I think most organizations and most teams use the strategy of hope. They promote someone based on some indications of potential, some previous performance and they hope that works so the new person will lead effectively. That basically is unfair because that new manager or newly promoted person needs a little bit more about.
Jeff: You are saying hope is not a strategy. We actually have to pull one more in place, is that what you are saying, Maged.
One of the things that you talk about was making sure you take time to celebrate, making sure that there is time for the new person to really concentrate on the development and maybe be ready for some of the relationship emotional changes that are going to happen. Do you have an example or two that you want to share with us?
Maged: I think most people will struggle with this transition. First the being promoted is a big achievement. Some person should celebrate and appreciate that and be positive and happy about it but also he has to recognize that there is a lot of emotion and regulation that is needed. One of those is understanding, accepting, and acknowledging, that relationships that change specifically with the former peers who are now reporting to the new manager. Sometimes in my experience, my personal experience and experience that I have witnessed and worked with other managers, they felt left out and they felt a little bit awkward in their relationship. I think managers could be prompted, could be prepared for that transition and change.
Jeff: I think I will go back to my own experience. I was running a call center so I went from being sort of on the phones with folks and getting that first time job. I am immature for a 20 something year old. I was still immature in the ways of the world. I was not ready for that. I remember one of the mistakes I really made was I got too maybe high and mighty. The power went to my head just a little bit and I kind of felt like it was my job now to make all these big decisions. One thing I would say to watch out for in folks going through this transition is you still very much are going to need to delegate, to collaborate with your team, and do not feel like you have to suddenly be the king and know all the answers. Your job is to lead, not be the expert. What do you think about that, Maged?
Maged: I think this is very interesting and I appreciate that because that is a personal experience I have early in my career, with me becoming the sage on the stage. What I recently witnessed and I am not sure if it is the culture or the geographical location of the place until this, but the newly appointed or the newly promoted managers trying to be liked by his former peers by being too close to the direct report and too distant from whether he should be in the position of hierarchy. Some of those leaders try to be popular instead of being effective.
Lee: Maged, I think that you made an incredible point just now. We like to focus on being affective more than anything else. A lot of times in HR leadership or whatever the position may be, there can be a tough side to it. A lot of times you are going to have to be making unpopular decisions or deliver unpopular news. What advice or guidance would you give to somebody going from peer to boss in their first form of stages when you have to start delivering challenging news?
Maged: I hope that this will not be the first task assigned to the newly promoted manager. I think there is a little bit of ground work that can happen before about. Having crucial conversations is an essential part of leading the team. If that person does the ground work that will come to any minute, then that will prepare him to have this candid, honest, but also assertive conversation with his direct report.
Maged: I think Jeff is a big fan polarity of how to be candid and how to be compassionate. That is something he talks a lot about.
Jeff: That polarity really... That is a learning trait though, right? I would tell you that early on when I was promoted, I made the same mistake of kind of trying to be people's friend and wanting them to like me. I think to learn from the three of us, one of things I would say is working with some peers and mentors to really get a sense of how do you make that transition from being a, you are the boss, but you do not want to come across like really hard edged and demanding. It is a collaboration. It is about setting some clear expectations and holding people accountable and when they miss, call them out.
At first that is going to feel like you are almost micromanaging and you are reigning on someone's parade when they just been the peer and not even a week ago they were the ones that is complaining about the boss with you. I think it is about setting some clear expectations and saying, 'Hey, look. I want you to be successful. The reason I am giving this feedback is I see that you want to grow and develop. If I do not share that feedback, I am actually not being a very good friend because I am not telling you what you need to do to do your job.' For me, I thought friend meant that I protected their feelings when really a good friend, now the boss, would give them feedback so that they could grow develop and not protect them from the feedback.
Maged: I agree and I think being a leader is basically you being put in service of those direct report slash friends of yours: To maximize your service of the, that includes giving them that corrective feedback or cool change in the moment or on the job.
Lee: Do you know what is interesting, Maged? When you said something, it is making me think. There are times when I have had a coaching council people in my HR over the years and the new manager, they try to do those formative things, but there is a percentage of people in the population on the team they are going to say, ‘Well, look at this person. He is all high and mighty now, Jeff kind of touched on it, who do you think you are where do you think you are going and you are really not the boss now, right? You are still one of us, how do you get people to overcome that type of thinking and address it head on?
Maged: I have a confession here that I have been in a situation where one of my peers who was promoted to be the boss and she was truly mindful and intentional in every conversation she handled me but because I was in the situation where I applied for the same position and I was not so selected, she was selected to be the boss of the group. At the first moment, without noticing, I was that resisting directly forced who is trying to the challenge her authority. She smoothly and honestly had the conversation one on one with me and she said, 'Here is the new situation. I understand that you are disappointed and I would like us to co-create a relationship between you and me that would be most effective for both of us.
For me as a leader of the team and for Maged, the aspiring leader who would like to grow and to fully grow bigger roles in the future.' That just changes dynamics. I was like okay I needed this direct straightforward conversation to understand the situation has changed, the power game has changed, and now I am at a point to make a decision. Am I going to be a collaborative and productive team member or do I want to hold grudges for an opportunity that moved to someone else. My decision was to stay in the team and to be productive and eventually we worked together much more smoothly but she was the effective player in the conversation by leading me through a combination of assertiveness and compassion, acknowledging my emotions, and walking me through. She has some delegations guys to keep me engaged on the job.
Lee: Maged, were you work an internal competitor for the role that she ascended up into?
Maged: Yes, we worked amongst each other side for two years and an opportunity came to be a team leader and she was selected for the interview process and at the beginning naturally I resisted that but eventually we managed that relationship. More importantly, I learned from it and now I use the learning with people that I coach.
Jeff: Maged, we are getting ready to come up against another break here. I am just going to put a wrap on this section and what we picked up. One is some things about how do you up, how do you manage the team. A couple of things just to take way from the section is do not let hope be a strategy. Really be intentional about what you are going to go through when you are learning, take time to actually learn, reach out to peers to understand, work with your boss to understand expectations.
We will give you some more details about that in a minute but really to understand what is it that is changing? Also, have a honest conversations with your team that hey, the relationship has changed, we are going to be in a different place, I still care tremendously about you, I know it is going to be awkward for you, it is going to be awkward for me, let us name it but let us also talk about what do you need from me and what can I do to help get you prepared to be a successful as possible. When we come back in two minutes, we will pick up this conversation and look forward to talking to you then. Bye now.
Jeff: Welcome back. So glad you could be with us. We got some notes from all around world probably because we have Maged Khalaf on with us today. Maged is coming to us from Abu Dhabi where it is 9:30 at night. Maged, is that right?
Jeff: Thanks for staying up with us. We are having a conversation about how you go from being sort of the peer to now you being the boss. Lee Hubert and I are here in Virginia, in our facility. Happy to be here, we are doing a strategic planning all sites, I said come down Lee. He has always wanted to meat Maged so he is in the conversation.
Maged, before the break, we have been talking a little bit about what is it like for the individual, but this is a two part of the equation. You have also got the person as their new manager, so I am promoted, what do I need to be doing with my manager now? The guy or lady that I am reporting to? What suggestions you have for that newly promoted person on how to interact with their leader?
Maged: I think the first thing I would say is do not assume that you will pick it up, it is a one-line e-mail, you have been promoted and do an okay job. I say put your foot slowly on break pad and start things to have a proper conversation with your manager so that you understand the expectations, you agree in certain work relationship that you want to set yourself up for success but having clarity on the expectations and understanding accountability is the first thing I would say a manager should do.
Jeff: Lee and I were talking about this on the break. One of the things that is just a struggle to is do not assume that it is just the job, right? That you just kind of moved over. This is a brand new role and you should be making sure that you get clear expectations from your leader and that you understand what matters and where should you be spending your time. Do not take that lightly. Really have that conversation and do not feel like you have got to figure out all on your own. To me, the folks I had seen promoted or come into a new company, some people this is not about being promoted. Some of those they switch cultures and being a first time manager and a new culture, what I see often is that they try too hard to figure it out and not have the conversation with the manager. For me, it is about getting some feedback, some coaching, and getting some clear expectations from your new manager. Lee, anything to add to that?
Lee: As you know, something here at Voltage, called behind the manager's closed door and that is my boss's closed door as well, we get one on one meetings and it is excellent. It does, to your point Maged, about setting roles, responsibilities, and expectations. You really do want to get off the right foot. When we on board people, anybody knew changing roles, changing cultures to just point, you can just avoid a multitude of problems at beginning by simply communicating firstly in a straightforwardly at the beginning of the process.
Maged: I just want to add something of personal interest to me. I really would like those newly promoted managers to be '"demanding" of their manager's time to ask for an actual time of that manager not only before the announcement or the time of the announcement, but also during the first period of the job because they do need clarity and re-evaluating and re-aligning the vision of their manager. They also need to figure out a way to correct behaviors that are not desirable, an example that I would give. As a group of former peers, we have access to the big boss. Now, we have a middle layer, the newly promoted manager.
Naturally, the channel it might seem still open to the big boss and we might overstep the newly promoted manager. That is okay and understanding and accepting that that might happen a couple of times at the beginning but there is a conversation to be have between the newly promoted manager and his boss on how to correct this behavior, how to properly set the communication channel. This is one of the conversations that keeps surfacing in every situation I have been assigned to coach someone.
Jeff: Lee and I both seen that flow. I think that we should shift the focus just little bit to now. How do I manage the team? I am in the role, I am trying to manage this new team that again maybe yesterday or a month ago or whatever, they were peers or I am coming in to a new culture and I had this whole new team. What are some of the tools and tips that you have us right from the kit.
Maged: I think the first one is avoiding the mistake and the temptation of doing too much too soon. It is a big thing for me because most managers would like to achieve that quick win which is desirable but I think they can fall into the trap of trying to change too many things to soon. That is part of the conversation that you talk about being in tension and what are the great things that you want to achieve and how much is too much and how fast is too fast? But then I would go into the announcement of having that initial interaction of the team to say here is your new boss and this is where I would include the new manager's boss in that conversation. Two more things and we probably will go deeper on those things later on is the one on one with direct report and the other one is that big team meeting.
Jeff: We covered one on one in some past episode. Why don't we talk to that first meeting for just a moment? What are your suggestions for the first meeting or two when you are the new boss? I am curious, I have certainly helped do a lot simulation and help people adjust but I know you are doing this work all the time. What best practice and how do you coach the person with the new manager for that first couple of team meetings?
Maged: I am trying to go through this and make the assumption. The assumption one is that the new role is communicated by the big boss aside this newly promoted manager. The one on one are done and completed in a partially effective way. Then comes that meeting. Either command is adding a little bit of change even if it is the aesthetics, the format, the duration, the location, these little changes can indicate a change of leadership and sometimes many organizations welcome and embrace a social activity after that first meeting. With that in place, I would go to that first meeting. Most managers I work with see this transition as an opportunity to create and influence the team culture and the team atmosphere. A wonderful tool that I use and I coached manager to use called designing team alliance.
That is a wonderful tool that can help managers and those teams design the environment they want to work in and specially because there is a change, there is an opportunity for them to have a conversation about how we would like to be together as a team.
Lee: One of the things that I remember as a kid growing up here in the States, we would play American football and one of the very first lessons that we learned when we lined up opposite somebody, picture that for you folks who are familiar with American football or if not envision this, if you are on the football field we call the grid iron and you are about to make the first contact with the opposition player, the very first hit of the game. The coaches always told us that first kick, that first contact sends a message and the message was one of those is going to end up on their can, under their sit, I am not suggesting that we necessarily do that with the team but what I am suggesting, I think is there is some wisdom in this, that first contact you said the words Maged, you got to set some ground rules and set the tone and the tenure for things going forward.
I think if you approach that first contact too cavalierly in a casual fashion or overly casual fashion, it is probably a mistake. What are your views about that?
Maged: I agree and I agree that there is nothing called the second impression. It is the first impression that you ought to get right and here is why the design team alliance can become handy with four questions that I find very useful. The first one is how we like to be together and the leader or the newly promoted manager is now a facilitator of the discussion. Gathering inputs from the team so that they all call co-creates together, co-create the environment that they want to set for the team. The second question is how we know that we are at that that we described. For example, if we are transparent, open, and honest for example, and those are admirable attributes that teams come up with generally.
We ask them neither should ask the question, how would that we are open or honest or transparent and they will come to more tactical descriptions or behaviors that will indicate that. Including many questions that are interesting in this stage are how about when things are getting difficult, when we disagree, how will we manage ourselves, what type of conversations that we want to have? The team will come up with wisdom from their experience to design how this team would manage conflicts? Which leads them to the last piece, the last question, which is how will each of us be accountable for it holding ourselves committing or holding ourselves accountable for what we agreed on as the team vibe or the team culture? Each person would step up and say well I will remind the team, for example, of taking actions. I will set up those weekly meetings on the action but I will take some type of ownership over a certain piece that will help us maintain that team culture that we design together.
Lee: Maged that is just fascinating. We are getting ready to come up on a break in another minute or so. On the other side of the break, I want to drill down in a couple of those questions that you just mentioned. How will we know and how do you handle some of those difficult conversations. I suspect you have got some insight into that and really important word about accountability and making sure that people understand there is a new situation here in and we are going to kindly and tactfully address what needs to be addressed in manager mode. I could be thinking about that on the other side of the break.
We are getting ready to go there in about another minute.
One of the things that I want to do your thoughts is sometimes managers just try to do too much too soon. They have it in their head. They had that all of a sudden know him all things to all people. I think there is great wisdom in your earlier points about taking the time to let the initial process run its course. Like you to be thinking about those things as we get ready to take a break. Again, you are listening to Illuminating Leadership. This is Lee Hubert from Voltage Leadership. Will see you back right after the break. We will see you in two.
Jeff: Welcome back. So glad you could be with us today. I have got Lee Hubert in the studio and Maged Khalaf is over in the UAE joining us. So glad everyone could be with us today. We have been talking about how you shift from being a peer to the boss for the first time or in a new culture. We are going to wrap up today's show with some tools and tips about how do you approach this and some best practices. One of the ones that we have spoken to a lot is just how do you manage those horizontal relationships. One of the things I would say there is it is about building relationships.
You are now a peer where you used to be maybe a junior member in the organization and so take time in those first 69 days to really understand the expectations of your peers, reach across to them to say hey what is my area doing well, what can we improve upon, and is there one thing that you wish I would know about? How our areas interact so that we can work together more effectively. Maged, anything to add in sort of that horizontal relationship space?
Maged: I would say being mindful that you are in a new position at a new level is essential. This is cannot be highlighted enough that the person should act the new position rather than the previous one but there is a little bit of fear or anxiety with people looking like they are not being authentic as they act from the innocent ones, from the new position. That is a tricky situation where I think mentoring and coaching could be crucial because that newly appointed manager who is sitting on a new table now with some people who were more senior setting as an equal might not be very comfortable asking them for feedback, asking them for advice, so he would need that platform to get those insights.
Jeff: That is great and you kind of alluded to. What are tips for the boss of the new manager? I will let you catch your breath for a second. I will start with Lee as you think about what tips would you offer to the boss of that new leader?
Lee: They need to be present and they need to be present with intentionality and they need to create some predictable office hours. As you know, when we on board people or you have been in your new role as leader in your own right, at the beginning you have questions and we commented earlier around the first segment of today show on today's program that there is going to be things that you do not know and you do not know and you are going to find your water level, you are going to find your comfort zone.
Tips for the boss of the new manager are things like let us establish regular communication time. We call that one on one but help me help you. Help me to understand how you process information. Tell me what you really need to know, just cut to the chase and be direct and Maged said if you are direct and assertive and tell me what you need to know in a kind and respectful way, that is a beautiful thing. If you do that one thing, created forced rate communication in a predictable space, you have done very well as the boss or the new manager.
Maged: I would say well done if you are that manager who promoted someone from within the team to be a team leader, well done, good job. But also take into consideration that there is a demand on work in terms of time and in terms of presence as Lee said and to be able to support a feedback, give direction and clarify expectations. But also be prepared that things might not go perfectly 100% as you expect the first time and that manager is on the learning curve. Expect imperfection and prepare for correction.
Jeff: I think one for me is you call social distance and dealing with sort of the old best friends. The tip that I would really have for that new leader is you are going to have to find a new set of friends. The relationship will changed. That is not saying that you cannot have relationships with previous people but it is just going to be different and it will be awkward and the sooner you will sort of learn that skill, the better you are going to be because you have to do that throughout your career. It is not that you cannot still go and have a dinner but you are probably not going to go to someone's barbecue like you did in the past. Go to their house for drinks and things like that just because next thing you know if you are not careful, you are going to end up being sort of playing favorites.
Trying to deal with that upfront and just saying, 'Hey, our relationships is just going to be a different place. Why do not we as a whole team go out and maybe on our one on ones we can still connect a little bit and laugh about things that we laughed about in the past.' My final thoughts to just watch out is when you are a peer, sometimes you would talk about your bosses and you would say things. When you now are in a position of authority, it is not your job to gossip down. You really should not be gossiping, period, now as a leader and you should not be talking down about the boss that you have and the frustrations.
You need to solve that with your own boss but it will be tempting because these are your old friends and you used to talk about, 'Do you believe our management did. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.' I think that is just watch out that I often see a new leader think that that is a way for them to connect with their old peers I will just that what that really is a way to get your judgment questioned by your boss.
Maged: I agree totally and I think that new presence is required but I would like to add two things if you do not mind. One is for the boss of the boss, boss of the newly appointed manager, is to look for a quick ones and low hanging fruits and put them in front of the newly appointed managers to help them develop that sense of assurance and confidence. The second is to acknowledge that this newly promoted manager will not come to his boss with every challenge and every obstacle that will face him and he will need support in terms of coaching and mentoring and maybe hiring or contracting an extra manpower with internal coach and mentor who would be able to offer that space where the newly accounted manager can admit his mistakes, can seek advice and can have a thinking partner because people will hesitate to open become more and more completely with their boss.
Lee: Maged, made me think of a couple of things. I am coaching a couple of people right now in the Southeastern part of the USA. You mentioned expect imperfection that is so true. I will describe it like this. You are guarding their upward mobility, first of all, there is a reason why we put this person in the increased position of responsibility. They have talents and abilities, they have tactical ability, technical ability, all that kind of thing. Part of my role as the boss of the boss is to grow that person's EQ as well as other areas of performance. Jeff said something very important just a moment ago. It is one of my chief complaints, pet peeves, that people will publicly criticize somebody else. It is not behind the closed door, it is out in the public for people to hear and it is just so wrong. My view of that is that when you put yourself in the leader chair, you advocate, you forfeit the right to do their gossiping down that Jeff was alluding to. What are your thoughts about it?
Maged: I think this is definitely part of the deal that you signed up for and when you become the manager, those are some of the responsibilities that you have to hold your team accountable for creating that environment. Something specific that I am interested in this are that managers, this best friend that Jeff talked about, having a best friend in the team is actually hard and I would like to express empathy to both people. The manager and the direct report who was a former peer and now he is going direct to a manager who was a best friend. Those people are both in tough position. It is like being the son of the basketball coach and you need to work harder than your peers so that you can justify why you are being selected.
Jeff: I am going to close on that as a son of a former basketball coach who played for his dad. Maged, it has been a joy and honor to have you on the show. Again, it is Maged Khalaf who is an excellent coach in the UAE. He works in Canada, all over the world. We will have his contact information on the website. If you need a coach or mentor, please reach out to us at Voltage Leadership as well. Happy to help you whether you need a speaker, team building. Just so you know, Lee and I will be back on the show in two weeks and on June 15th, our book From Aha! to All In: Life Lessons from Unexpected Entrepreneur will go on sale. Look for our website for that. In meantime, Maged, job well done. Thanks for being with us and we look forward to connecting with everybody next week at the same time. Take care.